Still learning the ropes...Learning how to play on MERGE

Culldrin · Still learning the ropes...Learning how to play on MERGE

While I am still only about 2 years old when it comes to actual playing time, I have found that learning, listening, reading and watching are the fundamentals for me. As I continue to learn, make mistakes, and call what I think would be the best thing to do, I find it increasingly difficult to understand how one thinks 5,10 off suit is the best hand to play in a merge site, or in any situation for that matter, especially pre-flop.

The problem starts very early I found and if not intervened, it can grow out of control because they then think that this is the way to play all the time. I fear for this because I see this happening more often in merge sites. People who are trained to play this way before learning the fundamentals of the game. Maybe its just me, maybe not, but calling a substantial raise before the flop holding off suit junk against one who has a VERY high pocket pair (me), only to see the flop and call my all in because a piece of that junk paired up on the board, and of course, being merge, insult to injury occurs when the other junk card is paired as well to end my game.

So riddle me this, How am I supposed to know when to get out of a hand anymore? Or, should I just stay away from merge?.....hmmmmmm. That is not likely because it is happening everywhere now....not only how merge plays out, but more so how these individuals learn how to play because of merge. It is pathetic.

BigMoody1

Allow me to interject my unsolicited opinion as usual on this.

Now I've had the same complaint a lot of times. I've also had people say the exact same thing about me (You're the luckiest SOB I've ever seen Moody!) But I'll address the subject of luck in another post later.

Five - Ten offsuit. To be honest, I've seen worse hands. Let's take a look into the mind of that player for a second. He might be following one of the oft-forgotten aspects of poker, which is, you can't have a straight without a 5 or a 10. Do the math, that's right. You must have one of those cards to hit that hand which will beat 3 of a kind. So already, maybe he's thinking about that. Here's another thought that I picked up from a guy I used to play live poker with a lot (and who was very successful). He reasoned that, since most people raise and call with premium hands, that no one would expect someone to stay in a pot with a sub-par hand. And also if more than a few people are raising and calling with those good hands, it's very possible that all those good cards are gone from the flop, and most of what is left is cards that would help a sub-par hand. It's almost like card counting, taking a gamble on what you think if left in the deck. Now there are so many factors in a hand (what kind of table this was, how many chips people had, and a hundred other factors) that it's tough to exactly tell what happened in this case.

Now consider this: Maybe the call was simply a test to see if he could bluff you out later if he didn't think you hit the flop. And you say you raised, and it was a large raise. You may have unintentionally sent a signal with a larger than average raise that said 'don't call me'. He may have put you on AK, AQ, or something else nice but not AA. He may have been in the pot hoping to bluff you out later if he thinks you didn't improve your hand. And sometimes, glory be, hands like that will actually strike gold without you meaning it. Believe me, I've done that before (sorry, everyone I've done that to). I'll go back to something I wrote a while back. A 3X raise says just enough about your hand without giving away your intentions. You could have AA, could have 10-5. That standard raise merely says "I'd like to play this one, call me if you think you can handle me".

And a word about Merge. Yeah, we always bash that network, and I'll swear up and down it's not 100% random sometimes. But much like playing different players and different tables, you have to adjust your play to the situation. I think you'll talk to a lot of people who say they play differently from Merge than from Cake and from Pokerstars. It's just another factor you need to consider when playing online. But if you know where to take advantage of it, you can use it to win pots and games if you feel others are playing the site and not playing each other.

Sometimes I'm the biggest bitcher when it comes to how people play (just tune in some night). But in the end, if you're going to be the best player you can be, you have to accept and deal with ALL the factors and different players in poker. Hey, if everyone could do it, no one would watch the damn things on TV.

Culldrin

well said Moody...I guess I just needed to vent a bit. It still pisses me off but it is in fact, something I need to adjust to I guess. It's strange though because I was always taught not to play hands like that and with all due respect to the individual(s) that play this way...I have yet to find out not only what to do in those situations, but to react to them properly.

BigMoody1

Ahhhh, you bring up another interesting point. The point about how we were 'taught' to play, which in this case means premium hands only.

Now it's true, those 'premium hands' statistically speaking are always the best ones to play, and therefore the easiest. Phil Hellmuth, in his advice to new players, gives a list of only about 10-12 hands you should ever play when starting out. And when you're starting out, the main thing you're trying to focus on is basically what hand beats what. Which is fine for a while and you'll win your share of hands. But at some point, to advance your learning curve, you'll need to pay attention to things like tells, table position, stack size, table image....the list goes on and on. The very best players don't even need cards. In fact, I'd love to see a game just once where 4 great players (Ivey, Negrenau, Hansen, Ferguson) get to choose what cards they get by writing it down, and start betting on the flop.

This isn't to say that now everyone should just go out and play every hand. There should always be a reason when you play a sub-par hand, whether it's because you think you have better odds this hand or you're going to try to make a bold move. Start playing every hand just because you feel like it, and yes you'll win some and piss people off, but in the end it will bite you bad.

And now here's where I throw in a conspiracy theory, for those of you that love that kind of thing. It goes back to how we were 'taught' to play poker. And how was that? Maybe it was a family member who just explained the basic rules, or we watched it on TV, or in a lot of cases, people went out and got one of those books by the professionals (and there's a lot of them). We'll, let me explain it this way. If I all of a sudden figured out a way to make millions by using water to power my car, do you really think I'm going to write a book about it? No, I'm going to make my millions and millions, patent my idea, and maybe when my future is totally secure I might reveal how I did it. Why do I want someone cutting into my profits? Sometimes I wonder if that's exactly what's going on here in poker. These pro poker players make headlines, then write a book telling you what to play so they don't have to deal with someone playing any two cards. I think that's why you keep seeing pros at final tables. They're good at what they do, yes. But I think the other half is that they've told us how to play, but not how to beat them. Their books make us too predictable, and then they're capable of making huge plays with nothing, and we're left to wonder what the hell just happened.

Now that's all just a theory I have, totally un-proven. But it makes you think.

pianoman420

well i have come to the conclusion .... playing online poker is as much luck as skill... saying that i mean not everyone is on the same skill level ... like it or not any can join in the games your playing... some have more money than brains it seems ... i personally seem to lose way more hands than i win when im ahead when the chips go in... as a poker player thats all you can do... the simple fact is... trash does win ... and there is not much you can do against someone who is willing to play that 10 5 off ... if he's gonna call a big preflop raise ... if he gets any part of the flop ... he's in it till the end... and yes maybe you do have to have one of these cards to make a straight but your also counting on 4 on the board ... and if that hits .. well ... ok ... im pissed and he wins ... ok ... and if your trying to develop a game you can be proud of ... then keep your game in check ... i guarantee you wont see my tournament life (barring extreme circumstances) on the line while im holding 10-5 off ...

a thought i try to keep in mind that seems to help with the pain of these kinda beats ..... there are many more players playing in the online world that really dont care about winning and losing than there are ones trying to play their best game every game ....

as far as being taught the game... learn as much as you can ... from as many sources ...but when you hit the table ... develop YOUR game ... different styles for different situations seems key to me ....

pianoman420

case in point...

we are about 15 mins into game this morning ( $3 buy in @ spin ) ... im bb ... 67 off ... i call just a minimal raise and so do 2 others in the hand .... low and behold i flop the nut str8 345 rainbow... i check ... my left bets .... the preflop raiser bets the pot ... now the pot is up to 800+ ( start with 2k) ... so i chose to go all in .. take it down now ... but didnt happen that way ... the one on my left calls... he has trip 5's ... river hits a 4 im out.. he goes on .... maybe not a bad call on his part with the trips ... but i would have known someone had the st8 with that board and probably folded... is this gonna change my game... probably not ... i take pride in having the nuts with the cards in play when my money goes in .... to me thats good poker with bad luck

Culldrin

Wow...that is a bad beat Pman....I understand what it is you and Moody are trying to say......Have not found peace in it yet though....it will come in time.......

kbreeze63

BTW......NICE 2-4o WIN

xenawithatude

Yes thats the hand i got beat with tonight....